tv Charlie Rose Bloomberg February 6, 2014 8:00pm-9:01pm EST
to seehat e flight distantight nt galaxies was alwaylastretched onger wavelengthsr wave signifying that there ying allere a a y fr a y fr tme n mu t of o natu ory in nework isor visited annually by five millionfive people from people world. world. ld. tains more than 32 million mil milecimens and cultural artifacts. facts. the museum's mission is to discover, in dit, and disseminate through scinatific research and education knowledge about human cultures, the world,wo and the universeand the elfutt elent and has been leading that charge forarge for years. mike novacek is the nseum's' or vice t ande t and t andpros scienceosos he's also curator of the paleontolo department. epartmepartm neilartm on is tm on i on i rect i the hayden the haydhaydplanetaryd plan plan he's hosted nova for fivefive seasons. his her program "cosmos" will pron fox. . . i' i' have all of them ats table. ' in there?' in th' the ti'ot the lhehe
l things. l thgsgs i'll s ith the planetarium. >> it holds the great halds planetarium which is a 90 foot in diamete here that you goyo into and encountertohe great space show. sp en we ll those chroell thohroe 45 galleries, halls and lots ofporary ws, porary what right now, poison, power of poison and live things like butterflies. butterflfl i'll come back to po com but to ut to ut to to o ' also most importantportant collti of dinosaurs, mammalss, mammals and other vertebrad other vertebother verteb vertebau nes. au neau neauaughter] auter] r] >> an important distinctport me, i't wai to i to o [laughter] ghter]te >> i should have said fossils is what i've said. d. 18 million examples of livinxaof l and extinc and dstihichch includ 100 species
o 100ites and the t collection o t on o spiders with about one million specim sp sp sp spsp the skeleton of a "waiting for godot," a species of bird thats b b has been -- do do that has been extinct for -- this isr -- t rerkable. >> and re's all kinds of ecting. becabecagreabegreabe leship we collect frozen o we don't to kill k anythi any anyou can justyou sc tle tissue tl a swimming whale, let it go, bring it back, put ig in these vats that keep it frozen. i that kd of thatlectd of thatleofthatleofth for astrophy csasop cs or genomics,or genomics, gen gincredible amounts oedible. unle. >> absolutely. utely. utely. >> there's >>so the'0-fos >>so t life sized m el of the blue whil where di start? t fr he v beginning, 1869, the museum wasususd from the very t beginning we had a mission that
embraced both science and education an inedciencen an inanananarteghout with fieldout with expedit with expe the globeex globeexink, mike,ex and yourex colleagues now do lleagues ndred dredpeditions drar? >> yeah, w >> all over the>> allr the>> ar world. what's an expedition thateditio you've d yocently? cently? cent cent >> ine is the bt. e ist.is no, not really. no, ly, ly, myagues are nogoing to like to hear that. ar that. ar t >>hrew that ridown therido middle. >> t f the the opunity. unit it u kn we d pend our - d pend our - d pend ouramiliapeth himamilia 24th season in the gobi of obi of. we can't leave because there's just too much great stoo mout e. hat musee worlsee worl co to what you do? >> ly there a ly there are a othere a museums of natural ory. e smithsonian in washingonia and, of course and, of cour f museum. a's unique abou's s, gh, is the scope, beca the scoco covers all the biologicall the scnces rth and planetary sciences, astrophysicsesut also thropology, mothropogy, mothth anthropology was born at themuseith ance boaith boa margaret meade ama mosetdon'tosetdon' have that.
have 200 resear have 200 sts on s on s mike heads up the ke heads up ch p chterprise andp chget rise andp chge p nderful p nderful p l p uld sal 'uld sal two the things i'm mostngs i's i' of over the time i've btime i'e recruiting eil recrbringingl rengl re them to the hayden planetarium. maike provost.ik those ve to bethos good to bethos o beth>> tell me wbet'>'s changed in alls change ofange what's changed over the years if you look at digitization certainly an impact.ai mpact. globalizatio an imizat. izat. at. >> pe directly pe y y own field. d. when you think about the musnk a aslace you wouce assemble collection and then perfor ific analy s ificic ollect learn the learn the detailed evolution of species on earth, the movement and theovem trend lines and cultures that have evolved culturally, in the
universe when data started being taken digita y, all of a sunday a the astrophysi th had a no ysical pno ysical p ysic p ack hole, ack hole, ack hoack ho dangerous to p dahat on displayon displayisis but our data b but ourbut oubu buunte buunat ist'buunat 'buunatllection. atllection d er the years we're yearsre yea awash in data. we are h in data that there's a movement in my community to find a way to share the data with e public with e pu we pu we can help us reducee the data to possibly fta to po interest things in the universe. how wou hey do t wt? y do y do >> y's called crowd ss called e data. so i have 45 day a set, e 45 d rameters and i can't' and i can'te and ian'te these hundred thousand galaxiethou t 10,000 people can look atok ten galaxies andten l me, is xtra t?xtra t?xt maybe a star blew up. ar blew up. w up. w at spe do the arms take?o th atever your analysevers, if you she it -- if you formulate in the a way that a person w t t has otherwise no es otherwe but your eyes, you have
your brain, yoan come to play the data reion. so it' s a whole new world goingg to the 21st ceur t 1st cece >> did you k w th didououould play t ole you pl t ole zationsciezationsciezationsc >>zation >>tion i was -- no. [lauter] [lauter]>> onhe thi> onth whe th wth thould excel at from the beginning, absolutely.ing, absutel ing, absinar inmm absin. inbsin. in >> yea in' >>heea in'him inm before he' before he' . h h how did you know about him? >> well, i hrd some astrophysicists "there'sts "t'st guy, there 's this rre --s this r--s ---- >> he can explain things. >> yeah, he can explain things 's not only an interestinly an an a scientis ut he can talk tut he that's that th but neil loves the museum,oveseu cose i was just kiddin was just kiddinddin >> i was raised he i in new york iyo yo hayden planetarium is my encounter with the nightwith thewi because new yorkers don't t that. there's no night sky in newht sky york. >> when you want to the most extrrd y sense outside of tside thght sky, where wout sky, sky, >> extraordina >>- raordina >
>> just in>> jalt in without -- are there place are therelacehere there a p in which you go? wtop pele finditop pelelelelele those places in the world and wed and we put telescopes in every one of those pl . . >> i would assume so. umum it doesn't have to be where my research took place but weook e peop peopent who dodo research there. and ' ,000 feet up s ,0atat even when clouds roll inn here's il they're still below you. so 're at thtop' this ain su byn clouds, so it's you, natureure beneeyour feet and the universe above your hese a >> 15, 20 places like that in the world? n that many. at man half dozen. the andes moun the anere i dide i die i di my p rch. that's 7,000 feet. >> what's the feeli'
communionh thommuavens. >> it is -- >'t is -lgrimage - mage to the mos. t and you know what i lament? t me what's ch ged,'ou've asked m've what's whd. ld days befores berebere everything was so completely digital you actually had to go to the telescope and theelescope perains, planes, andins, plains, pla pla automobile gettomobie gettomotomo not quite mule pack but you ge p to the top of the mohe top o-- -- >> it was an expedition. an exped an exped>> it was >> it waand youd would live rnallylive commune with the stars. now it's all digital so why do d you have throb when you could be at the other e atf the wire or at tth nd o tnetwork. so now we sche le the observi the obs the obsd st in oubsfice. in oubsoubs what' what'to me and why your museum plays such an import role, it is that if you can get people interested ind in all of this if they develop a bit of knowledge it is their currency to go forward andnd
gather -- but you have t- get tohave- a litt it of trlitt to de adebi ade want to know a lot. >> liste >>ty is the is gateway to lea ing.way toy to that's where we begin. erin. er that's the whole episode. ole ep if nk about what's changed as the museum, probably what's chged the most is our role in education. in the last number ohe lasser ohe l ohe l ohe ohe we' dded a graduat ddedol. we a o aums in the as in a world, anly one in they western hemisphere that gransp a ph.d. tive biology. iolo we've gotten aut'ity to grantntnt a'degree iteaching ite eah iience. h iience. hat --nce. are mt --nc --nc >> without an >> without a the univer >> we do these on we do the >> what's going on online? >> well, online we have a web hat gets ms of more visitors and a lot of those exbits a ree to see an that te, charte, charchar charyou know i woulyosay,owoo, insay,owoo terms of tem in a general wa one thinral wa one sl wa on changed is that i think museums wentough a twentybe gh a tweyb 1970's ayb 1 1970ere they 70er be to becom be to bec isolated from the world, the hemmunity.
yeah, you went there to see the dusty dinosaurs and a few collecs and some cets ofsome cs ofsome c c curiosit but there wasn't'enough conveence wghh onveence wghonve wghon wgh wgh wgh worlally neeworlalworlalal now we're in a tre'us perio'us of convergence. issues about the environment space exploration. e exor all these things are really ings tha ings than th're important insti impons he 2 t century. t ce t ce t were lucky to have someone oneone the left who h th lot of vision and brougs intototo those communities. >> sitting next to youting [lghte >> rightn't mean politically. >> i do think >> 's comment w's commw'commw'comm imporecausempor relevae of a museum e of them whsector i whsectnged. ed. because our work is use our wowo th the major iths of our time and you see that in the exhibiti he environ he e he e hum heealth, inheealt cially. cial ci
>> i ild it, people ome. >> well, if you build it right. >> we could talk about that ahat little bit, right? this is what you said? a on with my leagueleague you ot fyou ressed fyou your pow s voter until youununhavecientific literacy interacyteratera topics that matter for futurmatter political issu poli su >> yeah. >> y if you're -- in a democracy -- i think a democracy works best when everybody kindki knows w 're voting on and why and knwhy and knwhy and knwhy an matters and puts into s and pud pu you know, you vote people intotepl power. the craziest t ng to me is weme e alwa omplain about then ab ople we vote intoplewer. ntople well, well, you vote em into power! we so a more en tened electoratened elec can co ransform yourransformrara
cotry as a democracy into a thriving, leading envirprileadnrp thisthe 21st century. especially where science lite ds innten inn inn in sciee and technology. they're the engines ofng rrow' s rrow rrow >> rce preparation. ion. ion. io we out unwement inunwenunnun this country. there are t three mill t th jobs that t filled because people aren'people ared to filople ad to filople filople fille them. them. th. th. 80% of the f 80% rowing 80% rowing computer sci , are scienc , ar based and there's a new studya a out that about 65% of the jobs that kid in thntary school th today will do haven't been invented yet. yet. d they're likely g're le e sciee-based. ' 've shifted so much so much our foco tchucatiooco tchucatchat we' now weining about weining hers iaching scienceachi it it most chal itedchal eas for teng.
and e data on american udents, we rank dismally in international studies in science pration pratioe. prate. at down in e at down in e at highly developed nation iselop basment. >> th's why some people think pe pe p p p we nee weouee oueeee immigration policies now. >> that and also how we do stem- ience techm-gytechm- education-- in general. . >> stem is s. ce sechnologyce sechnologygineering anogygine ogygi >>ht. gi >>ht >> there' 's also this. hi the president saide we nidd wasaide saide sure how well our kidsds think." th" thth not how well not hofill in noll in >> yeah, that's an important distinction distinachingdingdi peopto know and teachingnow an how ink. 's part of my mans part of educator where i don't -- yeah,eah, i can fill you up with information but what will yout wht wh goin with it? ou know how to interprw how toerprtoerpr do y how to think about it?
ou know how tooun it into idea that could movet cod move lture and society urrward?so y so y so so if you're good at "j're goo that per is smart and t y smart t y s all this informatlln when in fact, in the actual w in the at we really value ie reur v vility to solve a pitblem you've never se've n. >> and an interesting an inre some o teme oeo teme oteme corporat private sect iviv know how ttestknow how thatknow how tha out.ow tha out. out. >>nd science is such a good tool s because s becabe is inqry based learnry science issctive story. tory you try thin out. out you test them. d actually power of makily powerf makily stake or fail injury what leads to learning. rning. so it's a great way tos a great way y y >> i have a gr>> i hction forction for questions. quesquesques ques ced. ced. ced. ced.[laughter] >> and the pow >> aquestions to>> aons to>> a>> put you in the right dirin the. general odierno was here and hes said one of th said one oe had ietnam -- ietnnow ar chief of sta - waf of sta
asked ong questions andquesons ons scienc scienc he he right question it was questily said if you know right question r you get ght answer. ghswer. gh. ghgh >> in fact, some students , soy are applying for a new gyingate hool and they asked me what doked me what do hat doink is the biggest challenge if youcha're a graduatee student and i tost i tt an bigtost i tt j the moment -- the eurekantre re where youroherethisrethis morphoere you have a a insect skinct akes akes on another where you move from you what neil is saying from the say the say the s thehe fact finding kind of mode of mental attitude to to one that's crea, one that's curious, one makes inquiry, one thate at asks theight asstions. and th 's a fundamental transformation that's required. >> a then i th>> aat in i th>> aat in i working for our inrking ion, ' d. 'd. we've got twe'ry purewe'
academic side, research, now thesgrad rograms. but we have 500,000 children0, cong to the muse every yeareareain school grps, in camp groupsps ell as w h maell as w e vising as families. as fa >> i was o of them. >> you were one of them. i was one them. probably w l weob. weob >> is it cha ing much? ha ing mu >> it's changed in one schse. se. we have se. international tionaltation altation >> you were doing this thing ong this t thth t universe. rse. >> oh, the space show. the new the the [laur] [l ye[l ye >> i k >>n' >>ed >>edat. >>ed >> >> it' our mo it'acious spaceacious s s show yet. >> "dark matte ”" >> yes, because it's ait' celebration of our ignorance. think about it, usually when you re' ren'. ' ' and maybe a li an bit of here'a's of f frontier. . . . measure t measure t measure t dark matter in the universe. e. it's 85% of th'ravity we see. se don't know don's causing i'ing we measure the universe is accelerating against collective wishes of wish all the wi all the ga the we don t know what's causing
. and they're both dar'us. dar'us. and so it's a celebration ofa this profoun this pe that has pe that has befallen us inbeent years inbeeninin you so you w u u u arrived at the knowledge of that ignorance. so how d u visualizesomething about which you knowu know hardly was the c was tth c show and i thinkshowsuccee thi ve s veationss o we kno o we ktter is? >>l, it shouldn'l, ibe calledl, ibe cal matter, bet yatter, be. 's he's gravity and wey anan n't know what's causing it sog ooo it's dark gravity. s dark g. s darkrk so dark matter implies it's somees i kind of ma ki we don't know don''s matter. '' i've bee 'campaign t 'mpaign t mpaign t k maaign " k mah " is thaishas no tha >> it doesn' >> it do it do n. >> d't ma dou 't ma d dything decause we hin't kn wn' wht is and dark ergy, ndme thing. in call i a, fred i lma. d a. >>d e what w>>d on at on switzerland at cswnezerland ere
they loo thewere loo theorwere loo t theyound what's called the boso nobelbo was w w awarded f the theorist theorist who proposed it.wh is was als llis whe gls ll gls particle. particleparticrticrtic i's a -- it >> they don't like that, though. >> well, i on't -- p on'call it - >>y ll it fred. ll it [laughter] le has a ndas a nd nd ou move through that field it hands you your maands y there's a mass-gr'g particle if you had to b if you haha partha 's a go ne tos go be. be. e and to to to everybody and that power of the of th of th particle led it being known as -- >>re >>ew t >>ew t>>ew ab>>gravity and >>grll offf avity e didn' e didn' didnrth-sh g. sh >> not yet >> >> but are we trying to? >> well, dark matter is a rethinking of our normal laws ofrm gravity or is it some other substance? subs's a 'o's a 'onon
the parton hythcistrton hyth hyth a icle, of course, bec, ofe, if you're a hammer all your problems a nails. ails so they think it's a ink ic'ink 't interact with otheteract w kindof ar kind i'll take whatever it is. [laughter] ere ere about the thick i mentioned earlier.nt the power of poithn. what i at at power of poison power of er exhibit wher exook at poisonk from a les. not just the bad, t just t st tison the good. >> g >>t example of e of >> w here are all kinhere a poisons th re -- things atthings at certai ls certain certain connotations that are poison th at for you but in in n smaller n s smaller fors smalleorleororor treatment. trtmen the ewe treatm th tew chemica th t c produc e had isuc benefit. but we als but the non- scic side of thiic slookic at the poiso in the literature,ure, alin wonderland and wrry wrry wrryer and the wrr's ndsorr's ndsorr's mysteries to solve looking at ison. sed the death sed th-- of this dog or of this elses else and then you go through you go th of clu o discover t >> actua y a laboratory. . .
>> and w t the solomon t the e e islas? s? s? biofluorons? >> it' ed explo e e e and we were talking about e talkin fact that faum has done expeon exhe binning t thes big, bibi multidisciplary exidiscipls and they are v highthech. they to the solomonsomon s to dive deep intto div sea and find send bioluminescent fisolum to do it, lso have, ese speciacamerae spatiaatiaare outfitted for thistfitk,thisitthis it's qu e extraordinary. extraordexaoao we hav of ours av well as on of our invertebrate ists 's amazing. amaz aze fish a m azficesh a m az azbeautil.az l.az and you're leading this? >> well, hat happens is that by deve these technologiehe tecnow itnow urning a light on light on in a cave th i's completel's
black because these camerause these camerause these these e e e nsertain kinds oferta ofer o wavelengths or you can reflectou can reflectct life -- lioff creatures ofturere them there no vosthere no ere've discovered is this thistire ld of these uorescent fish and oscer -- -- wo thven found a glowven founnfounn unnown in this coral rein. s coral just ous stount of things going there that weatcan't secan'n' >'t we>>inding new species of life, too? ? oh, absolut o o all time. l tial pk, even. pk,n. >> really. really. eall in central park? al p >>h, a kind of inch wo kin >> in central park ie're find not guilty species all the time? all the t all t >> jt to clarify jese cla'te't species volved in central park. these ar ththat haveave r been identifier been >> they were there buty obre t knew they were there. we they did 't have did 't have dve d >>t's not like something lled up out of the city streets.
>> a >>are, ede, ee, e wilson's ideas that rooted a lot of thi ought and now thou't and now thou'ouou even m refined is the r're 8 the 8 mi 8ecies named butecies named d the're probably a'eastrobabla'eaba ban species out thn specd maybe more, maybe 20. who knows, really? >> not even counting the extinct species. >> not even counts tot eveinctot eveinct cteciewh h rectecent pr h lyctecec 90 all life that ever livedth the planet. >> say that again? t agai mspecies are exnct. s exnct. s w' out a lot of specut aecut through time. rough time. ro ro ro >> because of the damage we do to t ecosyst o t e? syst o t >> no, i'm >> ning abo'm stou extinctions. ecause oteorites and ate ate a that? >> and a species reall a spehe ahehehe be we can , a spe cas lasts on average about a millionlion s. so we have a few hundred thousand years left but -- andt -- and andn we have this mn stinctionvents
ti most lifenttit lifent extinct extinct lived onxtinct l this planet. >> ly thr ho ly tho osthrough thosthfivethfithfi extinction events which were natural catastrophes as totaes as to as 's no a the six extinction exs, of course exs, of courseexs, o more c o d by mmo made action. >> so wh s the late orthe te teab teorites extinction of the dinosaurs? urs? >> hold that. old that. [laughter] ghte >> i've come i'nd a l come bit yo? we h we debates ebates -- >> he was up >> he was upourup asteroids took out histook isnosaurs. s never en us for en ufo en ufo u [laughter] >> 're more wistic. >> anything dram>> anything dr ny >> well, i >>he evi ince is to mnd i would still argue with other colleagues, i'olleagolle convince co neo- perspect that the ect that the ect thathe ect pretty strong thpretty strong thprthprpr
t of damage ont the planet and tht's mysteriou's mysteriou'-- io-- -- >> what >> wt?t >> 65 min years ago. now number just changed er just changed ust chan so 66 an so 66 >> but understandias never changed. ch >> you know, what's myw, wiousmy about it i y abouit selective? you kn. 30% those speci% those shosehosethncludith tures, asas one of my ones said. rtles just gallopeles juston through the extinction of that. ncti >> they had no problem. roblem >> they bld no problem. ro >> ano complicating factors is that earth in these other mass extinctions, there is no obvievidence that an tha aste was resasnsible for reses th es kes kes ke keconvenient excuse foenientonxc65foenientonnton million years ago and thyear astrophysicists were ready toreorerere hand you or each one ofh one of these but we can'e t do that. hat. there's no evidence. >> what's the mostt's the's's' tion you'd like tou'e answer. >> i have three. three. so i have three. ave three. wante threow what dark matow w
at is. . i want t know hat dark eknrgyhat yis. and i wao know how you goow from inanimate organicnaniecules to at life. is we can make organic molecules easily, for ea ea puin energy, spuke andnergy, spukergy, herergy, . at some point eart some popo ble shing this g this because it happened ree tivelyvelyvely st in th stof the stof the earth. you go fro you s to life to reproduc g li reproduc g and these are two great frontiers. rse i just spokerse i jugypokerse i gypo e i er but e ster but e st b e st b b is tnking if yis t do that on earth t l me how you d l t because it might happen onig hap
anothe et. anothe s this intersection ofio of the trophy th atrhehy >> if i fi o >> 'fi o you yknow. yknow [laughter] ou? >>heost important question? tion? i think really it'think reout how do we make pe love this worldove this fall in love with nature -- which is onef mike's termmike so they want to protect it. o prott how do we make them cu we make them the way th the d y th yd y th ynt to learn anyntderstandntdersta ntdethes es that esgoing tot g tofine our livestofiny of them with eth questions, quest scie >> and people better qualified. >> and that's about education. which is why we've put so m've about that. out th >> ditto neil and ellen. 's a big deal for me. de me. i would d one that' d one thatat to the notion to thestotiong to tng to t and tocision making tocisiong tocisici foh. fo of us ar workinof u theseworkinofhe inction events and we how is i e ecosystems d after this devastion? devastion? devast dest an an of that and how do those changesdo those do tho because that's informative forive iv
what' inwhat' inwh mentned, the ixth extd, tionion io io the d oing to be a lotot diffent at the end of thishend of thishend o centhean o cea few cea fe ce ces yond in terms of the in terms the biot the biotng. thng. ng se kinds ossons fromsson the past are impthe nt. >> i d is is where thewherthewh is particul vs particul vs particul and the whole sectd plays a a role. roroplplpl people can ome, that peop ome, trust us for the information not be dumb own, we dumb own, but to be accurate where theyte w can see real things see we havengs e weav wer of andof authenticity and tthn use the el extend our reach all over the globe and really all hem to confrontm to these issues about sociesues a scie s that a s atriguing, excititriguing, e, ecuriosity and make them y and ma learmore. learmore you ellthan yyou,ll yyoyo mike, th mike, th backa moment. cka . ck with us. h us h us ♪us us
>> we have been t> ked ave been t> avbebeprect art prect art ecart ec. ec. >> the e the to gethe t started. started. startete te e archecomarcharch chchculptochcu director of desidiret or of hoolt orf ho f hoe af few otherf few other exin various fields ofof of >> rob l is here, heere, he e book "thnuments allioes, azi thieoes, azi thieoei thieoee greatest tree e eant inree e eant i e e eantor e eantore it's the story of the group ofup of men and women who worked to sawh europe's most valuab's t worksb's t wos t wos from t clu s of hitler s of h ng world war ii.ng that book is a movie. a mie. a mie mie and is direct byct clooney.
clooney. clooney lohee's loheeyshed aollow-up a aokusing on the musints the musints intsn in italy, it's calle' ving ithe ngce tothe ngothe ng reothatng reoeasures fromres fr the nazis.”the naz”the e i'e i'ave robert edselave berte bert bae bert ablee bert wert >> thank you, charlie. >> when la aw you, you ha aw you, you a book and no movie. norld has changed. ha the process of youe procesg of you the moments men might becos amight becos t becos t becos t cos motion picture? ture >> well, i heaped because h matter how well a book does, there's nothing that can reach a dwe global auddwnce glttere gl thgl feature film. is such a visual story and it's hard to 'lievs there's su an epic story about world wor war ii not in our public knowle and here it is. and here. an . there was tremendous looting butooti mo moe good guy e good guy e good guy men and guy irectors g irecto g to gt historians in middstorge who eered for service and were charged with savinar grant he is love saw the book in the bookstore, he e boioned toioneione george he thought it was going to be a great story. ey hadey hadey
hadey h h office within a few ceeks afterw ce the arrangements we armade and i wma spent a week in their office all day long, no interruptio, . nterruio, . juwering a lot oweototot questions noquuch about thequuc ther intview i''' be uments officers,umicers,um so mof their kids, other people who were participants talked about thetalkuscript for "saving ital which the book which thehich thechchch wasn't finished 't we were in editing stage. film is not about not aboot aboot a a a a ' 'ck ndck ndmaterialck mack mack ma >> it's about france and brusse nd m coussed the mcoe mcoe m russians and everussdy else. e. whthis story not sufficiently known? >> well, i think -- >> b >> b n n ten about nd war about nd t t >> our friends at thur friends nick mueller, best friends w, best stephen ambrose who is a ph.d. himsand knowhimsout world war ii conta war ii contawar r onum men" caonumn 2009n 2009 and said "we need you involvedvolvedlved
at the museum. at tuswe don't know don'story."" and i think those that havee written about it, their books, thei were out of pr t. out theyn't come home t come hom job was justb was beginning after the nning they t turn the t o the o tries intrieweretrietrietrietrie taken and like othern anld war ii veterans they didn't comet come ho and bang their ches babout b b b what they' whne. a couple talked about in class buot lost in the fog lost fog l histor land other stople in haher stst written abt it have foabsed it hav details, more of an academic telling, a lot of times focused on when the bad guys were doing and that' s all-imatr't
baound. ound. bui ouinte bui ouinteewouinteew of he gf and why in the world would they lk away from having life made d this. this. >> monument men refers to army's monument e arts and chives section. chives secti how did thatecome part -- theome ome nning of the story? >> there's a mahenamed georgehegehe ' e acter georgeacter georgeooney's chgeooney's ooney' 'ge sto ' filto ' and stout is a pioneer in the pioer i conservation of wonss of art. ought in world war i, he's' convinced th coll be anot coll world war. wo he starts deve ping pamphlets to a to's culturto'lturto' treasures that become quiteat becomiteat b eatmely after the aftly ath ofly ath the japanese the ttack ontt
pearl he rlize it is great risk noww of the uni of t in the r that in the process of trhe pf trhe pf trhe pt naziisf trhe pt na pt na pt at pt ilation inn in n effort. n so he comes up wsoh e coidea of ocultural reservatltural ceserv serv the summer of 1 t3, the near3, the io io erio takes place by allied bombing and that sets off a lot of alarm bells. it publicit publn the bln the days after dad therer dad therer d d y up wy ese officers and o they're trying're ting're tg'to f in have i of mary backof m to transfer them into active units buey're never a'ler a' er a'n. ' ' 's nc'ndiv lsls tached to difftachedmieschedmimi o here a reo here aut a remarkabl y because notus only he thinks of it be thinks o there and therelue. he's the calm force that goeses to these salt mines anse svesmines anse where there are tens other thnds of stolen things and often "new york timen tew york timen yk yk attl oeatth hoe and assesses their condition
inventories them andntoress hemm to safety. toet etet >>et did have this senseave mission and peopliswho lond p the art and undethe art and undethe art and undethe art but also ace against ac >> there was >> think the>> t nk thenuments ficersnumee nobility of what they did is soth sopressi si sith sir f f whom were killed during cokill one american, one brit. so these guys weren't sitting in office safely, their average wasir about 40 yea ab. yea ab. there are only athere 5erer monuments officers ever inofficers eve whic n absurdly low numabsuly umab 12in europhe e europhe e ehe e e ofr two respble forble for all of the western continent butontineontine only a dozen with the troops wit trying to get into tow t andin yes, in th yeg mon th the ssues this kneethis roe decree ordering albert spieralberterer to destroy the ito destrcture because he considers the german le are eaker race. ker raceke ce and spr re and spe is's a death sentence. ce there's confusion's coefe'er to it as a period of a void where the bad guys aren'bad inren'd in
control bu th cood guys aren'ts arens in control yet and there a yet a interpre tions of these otionstion some of the mos sfanaticheoscheoscheosos nazis that he destructionuc nds to all the worksto allt. re's also a race between russ a nissd st es asniss we wewe cause of thee fact faians bie d d that they have thatred so mve th he war that is was a kind of paymen them. >> you' right and -- you're -- yo absoly right on two ly rig. id suffer ry heavilyr ryvivi during the w 25 million soviet people killed dung the dung du 5 mill 5 . the united states in citedast st 400,000 men and women. so there was so much oretheir country coung to go coung to go g to to, not making it a casese the' basis in law bas but when the l but when thed in 1907, the hagu 19nv, tion agai in works of art as aofof form of reparations of repa on i't know that anybody in 1907 could even fathom 25thom million people million people mill ople g killed op
>> show me what you have here. >> this is a remarkable remarka ar ar s one of the hitler albums or e.r ms. >> did it come in thid it co >> no, we put this together. ogethe it's caused us interesting customs coming into the countrythe coune coco when we've when we'overseaswhen we'overe'overe' t is alb oisf, webelieve, maybe as liny as 100 albums created falbumsler by th looting organization showing photog showof the worksshowksshowks ofhat haveofeeolenofee fr ctors in france with invent erinfor th ly nu that's the 1,171st object stolenctct from the rothchild f the r each family had a different code. co these would be submitted td hi hit a great jobgr we're doing in our instruct in ou to ste hese things and hitlerng uld flip throughuld flip thr mail order catalog. rder cat cat t m his ho s ho s ho s ho a sor up thereso >> how did you get hour hands on
onit tsoier contacted ther ntacted ther ther thth nts men foundation ame said our saidhere in sa closing we clhe war. picked it as souvenirt so you see this remarkable caigraphy, handwritten phototo er 6 and ter 6 and t 6 and happens to happenacto enacto enacto this ienactornicious part of what the 're doi the so you see the inventory numbers rothchild, boorman, david aioorman, david ai, ai with. so you see each of thesehe families, the name of the artist and the name of the work of art and insi album asi heseum a heseum a heseum ablese photographs of theotogra of art o tat hav o toat h at h h so in this c this is is rothchild 437. d the painting of a portrait of f f maand markaband rkaband rkaban about at this is the fatstis the album foundation fou found all in the pund ssion ofhed american soldiers or heirs tdiers or h pick these things up innn different un differffer this painting is one painting photographs you have with wormer in it d although the albumshe albumwere found about three and about habout away from a castle,e, i if
thworks of art stolen byofhe sto sto gnat cys sto gnnd that gnnd gn wormers an woldiers arere tearing down the steps ado the ste ste ste s s they're carryin'is painting. s's a resoa's ncidenab and it was informative becauseveveour goodveriends at the narionalthrionalrionalonal archive have arsuch a goo jo ving these vits vi didn't didnre 'e thesere additional out there. the 39 albums that the monuments officers f were the primary pros prosheos re ials for the portils for t of the trials pertaini trials eni tals als theft. s is part the cis p p scene an no one cene see it as such then. such the such tsuch i' taken years of perspectives of perspectiveto see it. now they're important for us to find. we've donated other three albumsee albee alb alb ents men information. ere this one will gothis o here. o here. >> 's >> 's r. s r. he was a fs r. he wasudent andent he was going to build this hugeuge
thing us . he wanted to rebuild thishis and at the center it was going to be a culturala lturallturalltalal there were also drawinwe byy hitler. we p those pho hsse pho rst book where he's sitting there drawing sketches it to look liket lit so house his museum iss going to be some of g to beat b works of a including a gr painters in theaiers in t 19th cen that hitler feels like, like him, weke, likeooked thers that no one can understand why they're greatrei'm thfuhrer and ythfuhrer athfuhrer an'fuhrerderstand what i knrsta knrsta but of course ey dof 't stan't e test of time, these 're not unimpo're not 're notey' nototey kind' paintings that people perhaps except inside germany insgoingrmany grmany
>>were the big losses losse beuse of a beuse of a e of a >> i think the frescoes at a ch in padua ch in pa a remaable loss and it wasd horrifying to the monumentss office italy that are italat are loing at t se photographs esma esotos but theseesotos bes are art hist ar looking at them and they realize nd t iy reize strophe and when they sawen they sawen t the photo of thethe t supper, of the building where there's no st wall, aint wg is onaintg is ong n the north wall, there's no roof and braces are holding up theng wall from ides, thm ides ideseseseses ree this setref the alarm bells from washington and it's a moment of inflection. of inflecti nd telthe storndof wthe ststtheyst lot of st l paintings. well, i do think this is juthink s m exampl in this d i've triedd i've triedd i'i'i'i' lot of them -- a lot of them ifellnuments men nu life and war ng stranger thantrange fiction. the monuments officers at the nning their role isle isle ispresvatile i the the prva icers tryi icertryi tryi r allied bombing away fromombing away ng a
churches and o churchesents but butasheget into germany the devastation is so severe there's not much erve achy'vechgone testern topea t cities, michelangelo, thelo, the , thousands of w thousands of w and they start their role as artas artas a detectives and detectly is veryry haphazard. it's it' as ot of it' as ot as ots ots ot scenes in th scenes in think geor d uch a great job wih that are the most unbelievable enes are the ones that are being xa beins theyhappened. . a oth ache needing to go see a german dentist -- goan dentist s somebo. >> and 've got an overly conversational t dentistiwhodentis says " on-in-law has a bu-in-law of information."mati so the s so tn't toon'oon'to seen'to seen' see up at door with questions. on so thaexactly true. y truey y
veryor nt they find their nformation anfhemation ahe the wo g to hitler''s hitler''s hitum at a s hite init austria. austria. ria. and it eluded them up until then by coincidence they oinciden out. >> the ey find out th eyllth eyllth eyth the gold tha thwhole ttire german economy is dependent son in one of these mines. t's a military pols eman whoan who w w sees some wo n walking pawo curf, one of whom is pregnant. and they e that, well,ell, shgoing the midwe, eg g g they offer h ride and shean ts over there antssays and the world ge ut iworld ge ut ut militaut milieck andand there' area fres rtared wall u and they open it nd and find the e and findof -- itfi- fi- d be like discoverin lfortknox by accident. some io someandmeme currency a army was focused on tha focused focusefocuse the monu s ficers werefi w called immed callecause there were thousands awere thoands ofre tf t from the rom the museumm that museen evacuateden evacuatweekenfovacuo get thenfova ofthenfo allied bombing. >> let's talk about pictures you have.
>> wel he madonna, it's suchs such eat example of the degree of edit edaking edededed placby hitler and thby hitler anan because you would figure hu an nature, the allies from thfewthfew we road ru r ru r rthe rmans are thinking well, we h 't go hthan piecego hthan p h nee pto get h nee pto get h n pto get it. they drive up in an ambulance in the dead of nighthe headcome in in and at gunpoint take the gruj e brugge madonna. na. na rap in a mattresraand you can see it's still around it. they took other paintings and put it on a ship, tait ot around or sea andorin theor a salt mine anthe monumentanthe ofcers, it's one , the lastast major discoveries they make and make an man m see stout, again, is anagain, iain, i expert in how to protect works of art but there are no rulere books or guidebooks for what youou do when you finddo when on by michaelangeloby m loby me ground and he has to find ae has to find way to levitate it and move it doarrow passagewayarin a goayar several miles without dingins itdingins on the side of the wall. the 65 years after th5 years after thwar. this is harry ettlis is y etis i y e's r yoetges's enyoetges'etges'ficer,etgell living.r, gellivinr, gellr,ll 88 years o ea ea ea he'
five livi monument r. g on borrowed time. wetime's in great'hape. ghape. ghape. hahape. orhahapeantast orhapeantast or it's hold in the film by a young actor named dimitri leonidd that thsterfu sterfu finding. nding. eyas ling. eyas ling.ras l g.rtzvah in l g.ny. g. mily fleesmi kristallnacht, takes upakes up resi new jersey, he j h j h jobo to and life stranger thaner ction goes i cte earn aearn arnrn my, drafted and my, dr his new country to go fight a war in his h y. y. whhe m whhe m wh wh e closing monthse close g r,ose they're finding these documentsse docum and they realize he speakseali hli h and they need translators translatorsransla and theyull hiand theyull hiand ull hi pehion he wo pehion he e manon he on he who goes on to bwhthe sixtn thn thn thn direor of the met. or of th or tf th 's played by m's amon. amon. he's the wunderkind in the nderd of museu . >> people kept saying he was 39 when he went over there, 40. towards the end of the war he was the curator at the oisters. an's anr, namedr, namedr, nam granger, matt esangereat job. >> t eral bradley bradleyral pattand general
eisenhower xpecting germansures in the mine. s inhe m s in s in so after they found the miney ne e at what point? >> they come - >> thet courur finger on it. april 12, 45. l l l we sti havmo s a monavmo savmo s the war goin and eisenhower and e goes into germany es iuso geeyy esuso ge want to see this for themselves.elves. this story o thisld and thethld from th from from m its suchitins suchrys surys surysu ev have a hard timetime believing it. be they go in his thckety elevator some 2,000 down into th down idown i i salt hey she gold forld for thsees, look at sees, look at e some horri e so enes. enes. they discover chests filled withilled wigold fillings, with other workswork that are destined to be smelted, ey just haven' just ha n'ust ust but april 12 is ant istoric day during the war. w theave there tgo to therehehe first concentration caconcentratio liberatrd io meliberatrd io melibe d io ord riff ad iot ord here td iot d patt and bradley -- pattondley -- pattondley -- aninondley -- aninon of the bunkers e' thes so sickened.
ickened.kened.ned.ned. eisenh w s thes ep s ep ep moving ters to geneltersltelteltelte media,a, send the press because 60 years 60 ye from now when someom nowys this nows nowdidn' nowen we needowen wedow w." but what nk -- and thatthat the n th'th' going to sleep they fito sutto sut that president roosevelt diedve eaier that day so ier that dayat day day day d efo save the ho ivve ho ve o ve was a focu tryinging to save what defines humanat defines h ef es h ef >> andhe question was askeueinion was askeueinion askeue the fi. is it worth rth think one of th thine of thine o ne onts offine refrain ifine r question in a perfect way. rf he said? his opinion it whis't worth the le american ymerica to trade it fo tosingle it fo t fo t fo t g e g that' s worth' taking u standingng u can be killed. and i think that id i think that id i think that id i i of expressing how these
monuments officers felt because it was like democr was like free spee this was th lehis s ths s th that theth ed in trying to in ying tomake surr makem -- which ee -- isseee -- is -is >> i mentioned the supervisors american givesamthe ne giv giv slide. u emu em he s of a cahe s ome of them maome of time c tle in c. . case c ig' le about anut an newshour half southwhour h mu varimu vari vari vae of t vae of t vae of t vae of tof tofofofofof places wre works of arreom france were taken ---- >> talk about he>> talk about tete blanch he's one ofhe'e ofhe' stars hole thing. >> a blanchett and mattchetetet 's characters have this -- th both bring it o both brinitoth brinh brinh brin fully, i tried tfully, iy, i best in describing hit in thebing hititit book. the' s thourtship g thou
a vetting process cate blanchettte blanchett who is a curator of is a curator oator o that all these sthatn works of art are go rough. ears s' eacretly --eaeaea 's worng, ke's wornightee on and the nazis are welhe naze a of it but they don't understand ks ger d is making secret notes, secret n createssecr a list of all theslistingsalndstin in wherthey'wherone and at the end of the -- when the li ccurs ust 1944t and recovery and re pushedd togethik o teenage at ateen a a a dance and encouraged to geencourag know eother and taotaur sepa o bad she o bae bae e n't want tgive up her urr rm nybody. dy. dy it goes on for four or fivenths nt e doesn't tre doher at tt tre dohe henning. hennhe he has to he has to and i said matt damoi sad catesad catesad catesate chett do a great job ofre showing this dialogue and isey had a shared interest in the
love of ar i think key hei think key hei think key hei think kei think i thk i thk k eyk re eyk rere they're p they'estiny but they onl half thnlkey. alf y. y. ronows where tnows is iss bue's not in the military. no method of transportati tatata er on the other hand knows he's going do 's ng great 's ng great ' s he now r ' s he nan save thehe nan ra i -- s's s'ubs so so this bigger story. tory toryslide shows georgeide shows shows shows out with t out with t t t >> it't >> it' icon likelike that leaning tower of pisa or the tower and i tower you what you what with yo wi with wition, the adoratio adamb and tr add tr d to figure t, again, how do youho s was a highly contested pghly contestedst at dstrentount dstwned po f and pofter world world waldi portions had to be gioen gerto belgiumto it was a target it witler's from thbeginning of the war. . >> last slid shows harry and
le ford expecting formbrandt randselfortrait.nd >> this is a touching story,ching st again. in who can make thiwho uff up? harry ettlinger, trrs ettlingeettlinge old monuments man in the salt mine seeing a self-portrait by rembrandt that hung in the museum that as a young jewt as a was ner allod byner god r d r sed r sed nto the sa d e sa d e sad e d e of art thaare of aheofof sa ing preserved isveis embrandt from his own hometown. 's the first's thsees it. >> so now the story has been told ins 's been told unti e, in tid e, in ti e, in ti e, irtti lor e, irtti rt is ric th ric th ric th ric thc thc th descri wha descst? ? >> peo ta >> peoumbers in pumbe in p i p i p the tens and thys of millions. itet an eete -- >> pies of a >> s >> >> pieces of art, culturalrt obs. t wa rcn it' rcbeen rcbeenbroken. ld coi s been s melt s s
ome things t ome things t ome th d. a lot of t s went to formerwent sovietntries, someerees, brou in tho'50s. '50s.s.>> some are still there. e still thth >> re are things in countries l over the world. world. orldok unitedldoks hass ha hat soldiers picked soldiersiers souvenirs. s the monume s men foundame s men with the support othsony support uppoge and grant created a 1866 toll free numbertoll fto 86wwii rt. . he foundatio he f f't charge an'. we can eliminate thian elimit elimitthe stuff back. f ba >> great to see you, thank you. >> great to >>u, charlie >> the monuments menhes the book by rert sel "allieert se se senazi thieves asenahe greatest tre hunt in hisry." ry thank you for joinink usu r k usu see you next time. time.
is is aking stock" fakock" fakursday, k" fak 6sday, k" fak 6 f fi'm pimmi'i' focusing f fos sing, we gots sing, we gto -s sing,'ve got to focus ve go extro ac extr ac extrf, extremetr extretr e michaemartom has bemartom mart gu gume.gume and performi n a theater in n rlem, that is a positive is siti s siti weill be dssill beapolloill beapoll beapolbeap theater and its theare.d d d d d d d and d and current career ent care